additions… #39

…web design…

various degree of browser support…

As a general rule: I don't go very far in supporting browsers that aren't fully up to my code. In fact: weak browsers exclude themselves, and I only have to check to what degree they do so, and if there's a safe way around their limitations.

I need access to a browser to determine what it can and cannot handle, so I can make up my mind whether or not the outcome is acceptable. Not all browsers will run on my Operating Systems, so some will remain unknown.

For socalled “CSS capable”, or graphical, browsers, it is their actual CSS support that determines their status. I don't care if a browser messes up my carefully crafted creations ever so slightly. Even what some might consider to be quite serious failures will normally pass as acceptable, as long as they're the browser's fault and don't make documents/pages inaccessible or unusable.

Which browser(s) to use is the visitor's choice – not mine, and if someone choose, or have to, use a less capable browser for whatever reason, so be it.

However, if I become aware of failures that are so bad that they make parts of content inaccessible in a particular browser, then I'll either attempt to debug and fix that browser by serving it alternative styles, or prevent it from seeing the styling that it can't handle properly. Ultimately I'll prevent particularly weak browsers from seeing any styles – if at all possible, and let them go back to their own default styles.

checked – no or minimal CSS…

That old browser versions fall behind is no surprise. Neither should it surprise anyone that relatively new browsers that are still at an early stage of development, don't yet have all the necessary pieces in place. Both browser-categories will end up outside my support list, but while the old and obsolete browsers will always stay there and be accompanied by others, the relatively new browsers will get another chance at a later date.

The table below can be made much, much, longer, and I'll probably add to it from time to time as I find time to check up on other browsers. No use listing every old and obsolete or new and incomplete browser version in existence though, so the list will forever be incomplete.

name (browser) versions not ready yet obsolete
Netscape NN4.8 x [1]
Internet Explorer IE4 (win) x [2]
NetSurf 1.1 (13 Aug 2007) x [3]
Amaya 11 (23.dec.2008) x [4]

  1. NN4.8 has no CSS support to talk about, so I've made sure it doesn't see any real styles. NN would otherwise make a total mess out of everything.
    The style-set NN4.8 is given is really minimal.
  2. IE4 has better CSS support than NN4, but not good enough to bother supporting it. IE4 picks up some stylesheets and styles, tends to hang on some and loses others, and generally turns everything into a mess.
    Just for the fun of it I have actually given IE4 a minimal set of styles to fall back on, so pages like this one will be rendered with a layout also in that old browser.
  3. NetSurf's incomplete CSS support simply doesn't allow it in at this stage. Especially its lack of support for @media and my extensive use of same, keeps NetSurf at default.
  4. Amaya is still far behind on basic CSS. Its handling of @media queries means it applies mostly SSR screen-styles on main parts of this site, which is ok since Amaya does an even worse job on regular screen-styles.

hacked in…

Some browsers have been included by literally hacking them in. Internet Explorer on windows is the most used browser in need of such solutions, but there are others that also need “a helping hand” just to get past the first hurdles.

name (browser) versions separate stylesheets minor changes
Internet Explorer 5,5.5, 6, 7 (win)
5.2.3 (Mac)
x [1]
Midori 0.0.17 (linux) x [2]
Konqueror 4.0.3 (linux) x [3]

  1. IE(win & Mac) needed so many corrections and workarounds that the easiest solution was to give them separate stylesheets. This is what I'd call “heavy hacking”, so I've made sure it is perfectly safe.
  2. Midori sneaked past CSS features it doesn't really support, resulting in it picking up the wrong styles. Midori also misinterpreted a few styles targeted at old IE/win, and had to be “resqued”. No big deal in either case, and it won't create future problems.
  3. Konqueror had some minor problems with side-paddings in percentages on floating headlines on this site. I changed the problematic styles for all browsers, which created no problems since only I would know about, and see, the difference.

broken beyond repair…

I've left this section open for now, as I can't say I've run into a browser that is so hopeless that nothing can be done for it. Guess that says something about how much visual madness I'm willing to accept.

Yes, a browser has to really, really, mess it up and make content inaccessible, and be completely insensitive to resque-operations, before I'll list it here. If someone can show me an example of a regularly used browser that is that bad, then by all means tell me about it and I'll give it a run-through.

holding me back…

Progressive enhancement is based on certain rules about how browsers should handle what they don't support. These rules have to a large degree been undefined or underdefined until recently – see the CSS2 to CSS2.1 spec-modifications, so some browsers in regular use are creating problems by doing their own things. Can't really blame them for that, but I don't like to be held back.

Don't think many will run into these problems since complex CSS features aren't really needed on the average web site. I'd like to use the entire CSS range on this site though, but I can't without dropping support for some widely used browsers.

name (browser) versions severely slightly
Firefox pre 3.0 x [1]
Internet Explorer IE8 and older x [2]

  1. Firefox 2.x, and browsers using the same engines, prevents full use of @media queries in more advanced browsers, because of the way these Geckos drop the entire feature instead of only the part they don't understand/support. There are ways around these problems, but they are extremely clumsy and prone to failure.
  2. a) IE has pretty limited CSS support in even the latest version (IE8), which in itself is holding me back. However, since IE in most cases properly ignores what it doesn't support, it doesn't prevent me from using more advanced CSS in more advanced browsers. IE will of course be left behind, which may be seen as a problem.
    b) One has to be a bit careful not to upset the delicate balance between various broken IE versions (IE7 and older) still in regular use.

progress changes the landscape…

There's nothing static when it comes to browsers, specifications, or the web as a whole for that matter. So, what's here today may be gone tomorrow, or it may have been changed substantially.

Thus, everything written above is correct today, but something may change which makes it necessary to rewrite this article before one knows it. Have already rewritten it twice…

sincerely  georg; sign

Hageland 20.nov.2008
14.dec.2008 - rev. notes on NN4 & IE4.
26.dec.2008 - added notes on Amaya 11.
last rev: 26.dec.2008

additions…

… I can't say I've run into a browser that is so hopeless that nothing can be done for it.
— Georg

addition to:

… what's here today may be gone tomorrow, or it may have been changed substantially.
— Georg


about…
…2008